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don’t you worry about blank, let me worry about blank

1. Ross 10.23.06 / 6am

   This happens a lot at the most popular PC store in the UK, primarily because it is where the guys make most commission.

   The quick answer, and the one that has always worked for me is to just be willing to walk out without the product .. normally the following works.

   “I appreciate that you want to sell me this, but I don’t want it, do you want the sale or would you prefer me to walk out the door and go to a different store?”

   Alternatively asking for his supervisor tends to get them to be more cooperative.
2. cjwl 10.23.06 / 9am

   How annoying, I would not expect that at an Apple store and the first generation machines comment is probably a fire-able offense.

   This post would have been so much better if you snapped a picture of you two and the sales guys smiling with the new MacBook
3. Spider 10.25.06 / 10am

   1. It is his job. The Applecare is a worthwhile investment for any person, even if you can fix all the problems yourself.

   2. His point about the cost of repair and whether you are going to pick up the cost of parts is very valid. Apple parts do not come cheap. Displays for the Macbook are around $800 right now.

   3. I agree that he went a bit overboard on how many times he asked and should not have had what appears, on virtual paper at least, a confrontational attitude about it. He should have limited it to two times on the floor, and one more time at the register.

   4. Get over yourself. In the complete conversation you posted you yourself never tell us that you told the sales guy that you are a cocoa before cocoa developer, or that this is the seventh Mac you have owned, or any other pertinent information that would have led him to the conclusion that is in your head; you are “superior” to the guy doing his job.

   It would have taken you no more than 30 seconds to tell the sales person the information you deemed so valuable to tell us and save yourself 14 minutes and 30 seconds of a sale.
4. killed 10.25.06 / 7pm

   uhhh. he does not work for commission. its not a pc store (to ross above). and HAHAHA ask for a supervisor….they are the ones MAKING this guy do this….also cjwl…the sales man didnt make the first generation comment…that is the blogger.
5. David Young 10.25.06 / 8pm

   #1: AppleCare is, effectively, insurance. It’s insurance that costs, on a $1k MacBook, 25% of the cost to replace — really *more than that*, because in three years, that MacBook is not going to be worth $1k anymore. At this rate, homeowner’s insurance should run to the tens (or hundreds) of thousands of dollars per year. This is a worthwhile investment?

   #2: You know, if it’s a serious manufacturing defect, chances are there will be a recall and free service anyway.

   #4: I didn’t mention it in my hilarious anecdote, but I did tell him (after he said that he gets AppleCare on all his Macs) that I own several Macs and that I’m a developer with a fair amount of experience.

   I’m not trying to be a pompous ass any more than usual, it’s just that I expect a higher quality of sales experience at Apple Retail, and in this case, I got a lower quality.

   (And, to be clear — it was the sales guy who said the bit about how first-generation machines are more likely to need service)
6. Daniel Jalkut 10.25.06 / 11pm

   This reminds me of the Apple Genius who told me I should expect my MacBook Pro to have problems because I was “on the bleeding edge.” Sigh … Apple, you’ve gotta find a way to get rid of these guys.
7. Rob 10.25.06 / 11pm

   AppleCare is a horrible investment. I bought it on my MacBook, but only because I got it for a ridiculous discount. The fact is that the only part that’s likely to break is the hard drive, and those are commodity parts. In fact, the only non-commodity part that isn’t rare to fail is the logic board. The likelyhood of that needing replacement is, at most, one in twenty.

   It’s not a good investment. Why do you think Apple has their salespeople push it so hard?
8. KC 10.25.06 / 11pm

   In response to Rob, on any given one machine, i’d agree that it’s unlikely you’ll come out ahead on Applecare.

   But a least for me, I’ve spent, over the years, about 1,000 dollars on Applecare.

   About 700 dollars of that was “wasted” on machines that never needed a repair.

   Thing is, on the 2 that did need service, It’s covered about 1200 dollars worth of repairs.

   And I still have 2 years of coverage left on one of those machines.

   I’d say I came out ahead, and most folks I know who have been through enough machines with Applecare to have an aggregate number have found the same.
9. Spider 10.25.06 / 11pm

   David,

   I apologize if I came off crass, but I do perform the same job as this guy on a daily basis. Albeit in a lower capacity as I am a tech at an Apple Reseller, not an Apple store itself.

   As for the points….

   1. The resale value on Apple products is much higher than on a PC. It doesn’t decrease in value to the public at large when it leaves the lot, like a car does. (If you were to try and exchange it as trade at an Apple reseller then the decrease in value is true.) I continually sell machines that are near five years old for ≠$400 or more. I wish I had the time to calculate the exact percentage but I don’t.

   2. While the Applecare will not cover anything past three years it will cover those three years.

   If it is a serious manufacturing defect then most likely there will be a REP from Apple. Problem is that sometimes the defects aren’t found until a year or more after the Extended Applecare is over. Also, counting on a REP is not money saving at all. Some REPs are only good for two years and six months from date of purchase. If yours happens to be two years and seven months from date of purchase than unless you make a big stink to Apple you will be liable for the cost of repair. This is where Applecare comes in, as you would still have those five extra months to get the issue fixed.

   On the same side of the coin, what are you going to do with the malfunctioning machine when it stops working, and there is no REP nor Applecare? Are you going to let it sit for a year or so until Apple comes up with a REP for your issue?

   Mind you the above is hypothetical. I am not saying your friend’s Macbook IS going to break or die, but to be honest there is the chance. Hard drives are like wheels on a car; enough rotations and they blow out. The hard drives in Macs are the same as hard drives in Dells, Gateways, and other computers. While hard drives are cheap enough and VERY easy to replace in a Macbook, the point is the same for other parts. Optical drive? Not so easy to replace internally and quite expensive if bought from Apple.

   It is true that you don’t have to buy parts from Apple. Many third parties have great products, but Applecare guarantees that Apple genuine parts are used to repair the machine.

   4. That information would have gone a long way in the telling of the story. I am sure you can understand where I came from on my point four from above, as that information was not there. For all intents and purposes it appeared as if you wanted the salesperson to be psychic. Now we know that is not the case.

   I still stand by my number three point though, that two times on the sales floor and one more time at checkout would have sufficed on the Applecare point. I understand more than anybody that when you know what you want you want to get it without hassle.

   Just take a moment to look at it from his side; he is not on commission but is selling a product he believes in (this is true for an estimated 90% of Apple and Apple Reseller sales people) and Applecare is part of that product to us. We see it as being a part of the cost of a machine when purchasing.

   Now imagine you are working (no idea where you work, as this is only my second visit to your blog, so bear with me here) at Planes R Us. This salesperson comes in as a customer and knows he wants the Cessna with the single engine. (I am not a plane person so I know not what amount of engines a Cessna uses).

   You, as a knowledgeable salesperson, know that this person’s experience would be better with two engines. The second engine costs only 25% of the Cessna itself (to use your number above). You mention it to the customer, but he is steadfast. You mention it again, and he will not budge. So you decide to ring him up.

   One more shot at the second engine, as you know it will make the experience better in the long run. The customer denies, you ring the sale, and each goes their own way.

   Would you expect that customer to call up your supervisor and hope to get you fired for it? For you trying to make his experience better?

   As I have said the salesperson was over zealous on the point, that I do not argue about. Just leave the guy alone, he is trying to make a living out of selling something he and you (obviously, as you have owned so many of them) enjoy.
10. Eric 10.26.06 / 12am

    The Specialist you talked to isn’t a jerk, he’s an Apple employee. The metrics Apple was shooting for when I left my store this summer were 60% APP, 40% .mac, and 20% ProCare. If we didn’t maintain those metrics, after a couple weeks we would get removed from the CPU floor on weekends, and if it didn’t improve the management would put an official letter in your file. If it continued? They would probably fire you.

    So, he’s trying to keep his job. Remember that he doesn’t get paid much, and consider that the training specialists get now (compared to two years ago) is awful. The old method was an actual, two-day, 14-hour course; now it’s something like six hours of on-the-clock, watch-the-computer training.

    I personally buy AppleCare because I’m not stupid enough to think that the technology I buy won’t break (as it just about always does). It’s worth it for me; it isn’t for others, and that’s why I don’t work at Apple anymore. When the buying experience is just like any other technology store, there’s no reason to go.
11. John Allen 10.26.06 / 12am

    He was being too pushy. He underestimated your hardware skills and experience in the Mac platform. To his credit, it’s hard to gauge a walk-in-we’ll-take-it customer, and his manager should ‘chat’ with him about saying things against revision-a products.

    You’re being too pompous. I don’t know the employee, but I am friends with many Apple store employees. I wouldn’t assume that because he enjoys selling Macs that he doesn’t have ample knowledge of the hardware- you don’t even remember his name. I’d wager most of the employees in the store (yes, the non-genii) who’ve been employed there for some time have a more upfront knowledge of Apple’s reliability issues than you do. Just my assumption. Before you respond, did I mention I’ve owned and repaired more Macs than you have?

    Seriously, though, you two cancel eachother out. He was doing his job, and you’re getting your panties bunched because he needs some (make that a lot) of work on his communication skills. It’s not like he lied to you- I’m sure he thinks it’s a very worthwhile service.

    I think you’re a fool not to cover your/her losses and get her Applecare ($189.00- this is a laptop) , and I’ve owned more Macs than you have and have serviced them all (Really solidifes my argument, doesn’t it?).
12. Jay 10.26.06 / 2am

    As a current engineer and former Apple sales floor staff employee (I worked there AFTER I got my degree), I stand behind him. I was like that when I first started. Heck, it was our job to upsell to AppleCare and sell .Mac. After awhile, I knew when to lay off. You get a feel for the people you’re talking to. Just give him some slack, I’m sure he just got hired.
13. Ben 10.26.06 / 2am

    Eric is absolutely right. That’s his job. Working in an Apple retail store is cut throat. You’ve got an overcrowded store to deal with, managers pushing you to sell sell sell, and a certain proportion of customers making your life a living hell.

    I worked in Apple retail for six months (Dec 05 - May 06) and at first was pumped to be selling macs and tried to sell as many as possible. But after a month, if I could tell I wasn’t going to attach at least two metrics out of three (AppleCare, .Mac, and ProCare) I would try and pawn the sell off to someone else because if you don’t sell metrics you get flack from your sales leaders, stuck with bad shifts, and could be fired.

    In fact, it seemed to me that metrics attach rates were more important than actually selling computers. Every morning before we opened the doors our manager would have a pep rally pumping us up for a day of selling metrics.

    This was the only aspect to working at the Apple store I disliked–I never wanted to sell something to someone that they didn’t want. My managers answer to this is, how do you know they don’t want it if you haven’t asked them, explained it, and showed them what it does. Because for the most part what you explained about getting in, getting what you wanted, and getting out is completely true and is how Apple Retail employees are trained; that’s just not the case with metrics.
14. David Young 10.26.06 / 3am

    So, everyone seems to be saying that he’s not a jerk, but Apple makes him behave like one, at least as far as selling these value-adds goes. But if Apple really wants to boost the sales on these metrics, they should just ditch the fancy rendered introduction movies and put a bunch of cheezy modal alerts in their setup assistant. Perhaps icons in the Dock should emit little balloons about how my computer is at risk because I don’t have AppleCare. “Your computer is at risk: you may spill coffee on it someday. (( Buy AppleCare ))”

    As a customer it’s really immaterial to me whether the sales guy is being pushy of his own volition or whether he’s just following orders — the transaction was still pretty stressful; no one likes the idea of having to defend oneself while making a purchase. “Justify to me why you don’t need the extended warranty and maybe I’ll ring you up.” It’s disempowering. Have you ever walked into the basement of Sears to browse for a new washer and dryer, and all the appliance guys are just waiting around like sharks, looking at you hungrily? It’s totally eerie, and buying a fun shiny new Mac should not be like that.

    I gotta say I still totally disagree about a 15-25% price point extended warranty plan being worth it for computers — the rate at which the technology progresses causes the value of warranty to depreciate much faster than, say, big screen TVs. I can only imagine that the Intel bandwagon is going to make this worse. Have you tried selling a PowerPC machine lately? Think you can recoup even 50% of your purchase price?

    And I’m not really going to go back and go for his job, that’s just fantasy land where I get revenge for all the perceived ills which I think were done to me that day. But yeah, that experience at the store was truly crappy. Next time around, when deciding whether or not to impulse buy at Apple Retail or order online from some reseller, I can say “Oh yeah? Remember the experience at Apple *last* time?”
15. Rick 10.26.06 / 3am

    In spite of the sales tactics, I’d still take the APP - at least get it by the date of the warranty’s demise. I got a new HD, new display, and a new (non-flaking) case on my Titanium PB just before the APP expired. That must have been worth $600-800 or so by Apple prices. And I figure I’ll get at least another 3 years of use out of the machine since APP expired. I wouldn’t get a laptop without APP.
16. Rick 10.26.06 / 3am

    Oh, and I doubt AppleCare covers coffee spills. From a friend, I heard they don’t cover wine spills…
17. chucky 10.26.06 / 5am

    “And I’m not really going to go back and go for his job”

    Dude, you still don’t quite get the picture here.

    If you went back and complained to his supervisor that he was pushing AppleCare too hard, he’d be more likely to get promoted than fired.
18. PZ 10.26.06 / 6am

    Seems like most people are missing the point (i.e., debating whether or not you should have gotten AppleCare). The point is, the guy was way too pushy. Whether he’s encouraged to be pushy or not, it’s still unacceptable.
19. blabberz » You want fries with that? You SURE? 10.26.06 / 6am

    […] An Apple Store employee in San Francisco seems really convinced a new MacBook is going to break and won’t stop pushing AppleCare on David Young: Guy: Are you going to get AppleCare with that? […]
20. LKM 10.26.06 / 8am

    Wow, dude, stop being such an asshat. Maybe he was annoying (and actually, he’s right about AppleCare for portables, even if it doesn’t matter - you’re stupid not to buy it). Maybe it’s his job to be annoying. Maybe not. But he took what, two minutes out of your life, and now you’re writing a blog entry which probably took you at least ten times as much, you’re threatening to go back there, get his name and try to get him fired? Sure, he’s annoying, but you’re just a whiny asshat.
21. Aaron Swartz 10.26.06 / 8am

    I’ve had the same experience everytime I’ve been with someone who bought a Mac in an Apple store. Thanks to Eric for explaining why.
22. Charles Gaba 10.26.06 / 9am

    Just a couple of quick points:

    –Re. AppleCare’s value–remember, the first year of service is included anyway (we’re talking about hardware, not phone support; I know that’s only 90 days without AppleCare), so APP is really only for two years, not three.

    –APP for a MacBook is $249 for a $1,099 product (full retail prices; edu discount may apply in this case, but I’m looking at the general situation). That’s about 23% of the purchase price for 2 years, or about 11.5% of the price per year.

    I’m not saying whether this is a fair deal or not, just trying to present a more realistic appraisal of what the cost of AppleCare actually is. Of course, this varies depending on the system–APP is $149 for a $599 Mac mini, which is a whopping 12.5% per year.

    At the opposite end of the spectrum, APP for, say, a stock Mac Pro with a 23″ ACD would only be 3.5% per year ($249 on a $3,500 bundle), which is certainly reasonable.

    Taken to the extreme, of course, you could also max out a Mac Pro with 16 GB of RAM, 4 750 GB hard drives, etc etc, PLUS a 30″ ACD and still only pay $249 for AppleCare on all of it (a $15,000+ system). This would amount to as little as 1% of the total cost per year. Granted, you’d still be shelling out $15,000 to do so, but the point is still valid.
23. Benjamin Ragheb 10.26.06 / 9am

    I just bought a MacBook this weekend at the Pittsburgh Apple Store and the staff were also pushy about AppleCare. It was fairly clear to me that they were trying to meet some kind of quota. It was annoying, but I’ve survived worse.

    Just be glad somebody didn’t hit your parked car the same day, leaving $1500 worth of damage and no note.

    Life really isn’t all that bad.
24. greg 10.26.06 / 9am

    just stumbled across this post from daring fireball. i’m gonna have to come back here 3 years from now for an update on this saga. i hope this whole thing isn’t a jinx…

    ps. i’m on my 3rd mac, never had a problem w/ any of them, all lasting well over 3 years. i could still use my imac 333 if i wanted a 15″ screen. speaking of, anyone have a good suggestion what to do w/ old tech?
25. jimothy 10.26.06 / 10am

    whether or not applecare ‘makes sense’ or is a reasonable insurance policy has nothing to do with this - the point is that pushy sales people make customers uncomfortable and if the apple store becomes uncomfortable to shop in nobody will bother. asking once is reasonable in 2006, you have to expect to get quizzed about .mac and applecare. if the answer is “no” then asking more than once is not acceptable at all. think about the dread of walking into a car dealership without doing any prior research (edmunds.com, etc). who wants to go through that?
26. Eric 10.26.06 / 10am

    I just realized you said he was carrying around one of “those spiffy wireless POS terminals” - does everyone in the store carry them? Typically they only do that in a mini store, which means that if he’s got an EasyPay he’s not even a sales Specialist. He’s part of the point-of-sale Concierge team.

    If it was as busy as you say, then all the Specialists were occupied, and this guy, out of his element or not, was the only one able to get you a system. Blame the managers for not having enough sales staff, not the guy.
27. Anonymous Mac Specialist 10.26.06 / 10am

    I can’t talk about this (according to my contract), but I want to chime in.

    The comments in this thread are enlightening. My job with Apple retail is my first retail position - I have another full-time job which is my “career.” I work at the Apple store for fun and extra cash.

    I could have very easily been the sales guy in your story; I use some of the very same verbage. I tell customers that I own 11 Macs (true) and have purchased APP on all of them (also true). I tell them that, while Apple products are well-made, there *are* moving parts inside and, sometimes, things break. I tell them that I don’t make any more money if they buy APP than I do if they don’t (which is true).

    I also spend most of my time recommending less-expensive systems to customers than they originally ask for. I don’t do this on purpose, but I find that most customers want to buy more computer than they need. I often say things like, “Instead of upgrading the MacBook’s RAM today, I’d rather see you invest that money in AppleCare and .Mac, both of which will give you immediate benefit, rather than extra memory which, based on what you’ve told me, you don’t really need.”

    (Of course, if a customer is going to run XP on his MacBook, or play games, or use GarageBand, I recommend the memory.)

    Another point: this discussion seems to be ignoring the value of AppleCare’s phone-based tech support. Since Apple makes the hardware *and* the OS and most applications that people use, AppleCare is a one-stop-shop for all tech support issues. And, if things are not broken, but you just don’t know how to do something, you can call AppleCare to learn how. I use the example of sharing your iCal calendar; “If you want to share your calendar with your spouse but don’t really know how to do that, just call AppleCare. Those are the guys who wrote the program, so they can tell you how.”

    In short, while I agree that the Mac Specialist you dealt with might have pressured you more than you wanted, I don’t see how you can be angry at him. Most customers don’t understand the value of AppleCare, .Mac and ProCare. If you didn’t need his advice, you could have purchased the computer online.

    And, Eric, as a Mac Specialist, I’m expected to carry an EasyPay with me at all times. (And, why was he wearing a red shirt?)
28. Eric 10.26.06 / 10am

    The EasyPay ratio depends on store size; I worked at a 45′ and we only had like 5 total for the entire store. Unless you work at the San Francisco store, it’s impossible to say what kind of Mac Specialist this guy was.
29. Russ 10.26.06 / 12pm

    Dear Anonymous Mac Specialist,

    Shouldn’t “I” if purchasing a new mac & possibly thinking about upgrading my memory. upgrade it first so when “I” purchase the apple care the memory will now be covered?

    I will say apple care does benefit the purchaser a friend of mine’s 15 inch powerbook just died & apple replaced it with a 15 inch macbook pro, I say what a deal!
30. digt 10.26.06 / 1pm

    I love AppleCare and it’s an especially good idea on laptops so you should have gotten it, but that guy should be fired. It would be great if you made another trip to talk to his manager.

    The reason he is pushing hard to sell it is that it makes him look good. Even though they don’t work on commission every item they sell is tracked at at meetings we get to see who sold how many Mac Pros, .Mac, etc and how much profit you’re actually making for the company.

    It doesn’t matter if you’re a Genius but if you’re a normal guy like me on the sales floor and your metrics are poor and there are temps whose metrics are good, well you can see what will happen. There is no per person quota but there is one for the store and guess how it works, it you make it you make more money, if you don’t you make less, simple. Don’t put any credence into the “Specialist” tag anyway, it’s BS.

    I don’t believe Apple’s policies are particularly pushy as I’ve worked at other electronic and retail stores and all have had equal or worse policies. This jerk would be a jerk at any other store he just happens to work at an Apple one right now. I’m happily employed at an Apple Store and my coworkers are great but I’m just telling it like it is folks.

    p.s. I would have slapped him for the “You mean he’s going to get all the parts and do the service?” comment.
31. Beerzie.Mac 10.26.06 / 1pm

    So, did renew your .Mac subscription or not?
32. Anonymous Mac Specialist 10.26.06 / 1pm

    @Russ:

    >Shouldn’t “I” if purchasing a new mac & possibly thinking >about upgrading my memory. upgrade it first so when “I” >purchase the apple care the memory will now be >covered?

    I can’t say this for sure (and I will check next time I am at work), but I think that, as long as you buy the RAM upgrade from Apple, any memory in a machine is covered by that machine’s APP, even if you purchase the RAM after the APP.

    Plus, any RAM purchased from and installed by Apple is “Apple’s problem” and not your problem, should anything go wrong.
33. Janine Sisk 10.26.06 / 3pm

    I’m glad this is bugging someone else. We buy a fair number of Macs for our small business (mostly because we’re compulsive upgraders and have learned to cut off the sales pitch with “it’s against company policy”. But I’ve seen sales people in Apple Stores relentlessly pitch AppleCare and .Mac to people who have never bought a Mac before and they are obviously very uncomfortable because of it. Why ruin their first experience buying a Mac? Why send them out the door feeling slimed? It’s only going to detract from the joy of the new machine, and could quite possibly cost other sales in the future, which is much worse than them not buying AppleCare or .Mac today.

    As far as AppleCare’s value goes, we bought it on our first laptops and were assured that it covered anything that could happen to them. But alas, when one of the laptops slid off the couch onto the floor, hitting a corner and busting open the Titanium case, we found out otherwise. We have never bought another AppleCare policy since then; we prefer to take the risk than to feel ripped off. So far, knock wood, we’ve never had any problems it would cover anyway.
34. Peter C 10.26.06 / 4pm

    In New Zealand (where I live) we have a law called the Consumer Guarantees Act. The laws states that if an item malfunctions (dues to a design fault) in the first few years of its life, the manufacturer is compelled to repair it for no more than the shiping cost. This makes most exteneded warrantees/guarantees pointless, something not lost on most educated shoppers. It won’t stop persistent salesmen, and sometimes the extended warrantee/guarantee has things that our law doesn’t cover (like free shipping - great when you’re living way out of town), but usually, the NZ law gives all the guarantee we need now. It’s a great law!
35. Eric 10.26.06 / 7pm

    AppleCare saved my ass when my Dual G5 tower had a video card failure, a processor failure, and a motherboard failure in the first two years, with a hard drive failure six after that.

    The video card was sent to me overnight.

    For the processor and motherboard, the local Apple store took care of the problem the same day.

    Haven’t dealt with the dead hard drive yet, but I expect it wlll be taken care in an efficient manner.

    I’m beginning to question build quality, but customer service has been first-rate in my experience

    Definitely worth the cost for me.
36. sam 10.26.06 / 7pm

    i think the sales guy was sincerely trying to be helpful, and should not be dumped on like this.

    i’ve bought at the san francisco apple store twice. once time i did get applecare, the other time i declined. the time i declined the sale guy did ask a couple questions but they seemed geared towards making sure i understood what applecare was for. when i said no after the explanation, he moved on.

    buying a mac at apple store san francisco is a very smooth, enjoyable experience. compare it to best buy or any other store like it and you’ll agree.
37. Craig 10.26.06 / 8pm

    Just want to chime in on the comment flow:

    I’ve been working exclusively on Powerbooks for the last 6 1/2 years and I’ve gotten Applecare on all of them. If you’re planning on using a laptop as a laptop — that is, carried around with you everyday, thrown in bags, etc — then I can’t imagine not purchasing Applecare. $250 is nothing when you consider the potential of something breaking — logicboard, screen, HD, keyboard keys, etc — on a workhorse machine. I’ve had a TiBook screen go pink after 2 1/2 years of use. Applecare there alone saved me $250 ($500 to replace the screen). And on my AlBook, I’ve had two logic board replacements.

    And I don’t find these faults wholly unreasonable — I am using the hell out of these little guys and considering the amount of travel and shaking their go through on a daily basis I would expect the occasional hiccup.

    Not to mention perhaps the most intangible point of buying applecare — peace of mind. I know I can treat this thing like a laptop and if something inside goes wonky I’ll be covered.
38. Craig 10.26.06 / 9pm

    Addendum my previous comment:

    While it’s difficult to assess the “jerkiness” of someone based on transcript alone, I also agree with the posters supporting the sales person. It sounds like he was genuinely trying to be helpful. Albeit probably with a bit more zeal than was necessary.

    Nevertheless this whole post seems like an unfortunate but understandable overreaction (dealing with annoying sales people can certainly get under the skin).

    Probably the most gentleman-like thing to have done was to tell this sales rep that his pushiness on the Applecare was a big turnoff. As others have noted, he was probably new and feedback like this will only improve the experience for other customers and help save face for all parties.
39. Greg 10.26.06 / 9pm

    I just bought a new MacBook and MacBook Pro for work (the latter already in for repair, ugh), and I bought AppleCare for both. This was a no-brainer at work, but I bought it on my personal PowerBook a few years ago as well. The trick to making AppleCare a better value if you don’t expect to be calling their support (as I don’t, being a long-time Mac user and administrator) is to buy it somewhere other than Apple. $249 for MacBook? Nah, try $189. $349 for MacBook Pro? Cut that to $269. (Prices are from ExperCom, with whom I have no affiliation except as a long-time satisfied customer. I buy Macs from them as well.) Makes it much easier to take. And on the Pro, that percentage calculation is already much lower given your $1999-ish entry point for the machine.

    And you can always wait and buy it at the end of the first year. If you have a problem-free first year and don’t need the call-in support, and there are no lurking issues out in the Mac Web with that model then maybe you don’t pony up for the AppleCare at that point.

    As for the original issue of the idiotic employee, if that happened to me I’d be notifying the manager one way or another that they have a problem. I agree that a certain amount of that is on the employee despite any management push for AppleCare sales (which should be a very clear profit maker for Apple, which is why they push them). But with that level of ridiculous repetition, something is clearly wrong. Either there is a desperate/fanatic push or a hefty employee incentive from that store’s management (perhaps as a result of pressure or incentive from higher up), or (and maybe in addition) the employee thinks it’s all stupid and is annoying the customers so as to create the reality he would like to see. (As in “Look, you’re pushing us to cram AppleCare down their throats, and all it does is annoy the customers.”)

    Retail management is usually pretty short-sighted.
40. a crank’s progress :: links for 2006-10-27 10.26.06 / 10pm

    […] So, This Guy at the Apple Store San Francisco Is a Jerk I, on the other hand, would never buy a *book without AppleCare. two repairs, each of which likely cost as much as the service. (tags: Apple) […]
41. Rick 10.27.06 / 3am

    Oh, I see there’s some moderation going on here. Okay, I didn’t really care anyway.
42. akatsuki 10.27.06 / 11am

    When did you abdicate responsibility to tell the guy to shove it? Maybe out of some false sense of politeness you just kept giving soft “no”s, but after a couple of tries, I would have just told him to stop pushing. If he persevered, I would have asked to speak to his manager.

    The issue is not the value of Applecare, which is okay coverage but not great for the money (no on-site repair, no loaner), but rather the sales tactics of an idiot at the Apple Store.
43. Paul Dorn 10.27.06 / 2pm

    Dude, get over yourself. The guy was trying to help. You don’t need to insult retail sales people, who are generally more in touch with consumer complaints than the engineers anyway. The retail staff deals with your shit, not the engineers. And many of them _are_ extremely knowledgeable. But you’re some know-everything whatever pissant, so piss on “sales staff.” Right.
44. David Young 10.27.06 / 2pm

    He was trying to help? He was dealing with my shit? I’m not sure what story you’re reading, but as far as I can tell, I said to him:

    1x: I’d like to buy this product

    5x: No, I don’t want to buy this service

    What part of this exchange looks to you like “dealing with my shit” ?
45. Eric 11.12.06 / 1am

    David, you’re what we called a ’surgical strike’ customer. You want to go in and out with a single product that you need. Here’s the problem:

    Apple doesn’t really want that kind of customer. Seriously.

    You don’t make them any attachment money, because you’re not getting any additional products or services. Management pushes the sales floor to ’sell a complete solution’. Not every customer wants a complete solution, but if the Specialist doesn’t try his damndest to make it one, he’ll take endless shit from management.

    As for the shit they have to deal with? It’s not you directly, but it’s the time they spent with you. In some cases, management will even tell him to ‘go back and try another angle’ – wasting time he could be spending with a customer who is genuinely interested in the service. He resents the time management forces him to spend with you. Neither side wants to deal with a dead-end situation like that, but because Apple’s push for AppleCare attachment rates is huge right now, you’re stuck with it. Sorry, but if you don’t want to interact with salespeople, your best bet is the online store.
46. Tim 9.23.07 / 9am

    You can buy Apple Care at ANY-TIME within the 3 years it is capable of covering you. You do not have to buy it when you get your computer, just buy it once it breaks (within that 3 years) and get your stuff fixed for $299 and not $900.

    There is no requirement that your computer be in working order to buy the extended warranty Apple Care provides (you can buy it online).

    You should not have your buddy Dave doing repairs though, you can void your warranty coverage alltogether when you do that on Apple Laptops, Desktops are cool, and ram swaps are ok, but usually once you crack into the case, your warranty goes bye bye…
47. apple genius credentials 5.27.08 / 6pm

    […] […]
48. UFucknJewAss 9.3.08 / 11pm

    Ahhhhh stfu!!! U fuckn impatienit piece of shit he’s just doing his job asshole. U feel like u have power over him or somethng?? ur obsessive old fart no life that prides on that. ur those ppl that go to stores just to try and make someone feel bad, GET A FUCKN LIFE!!!
49. tim is stupid 10.21.08 / 1am

    tim you only have 1 year to decide to buy applecare, not the 3 years.

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